No-Code Talk #6

Aron Korenblit and Connor Finlayson discuss No-code conf, new tools, so much more.



Aron: Hey Connor, long time.  

Connor: I'm excited.  

Aron: It's good, man. It's good. I feel. I feel like November was the biggest month of the year. And, uh, I'm really excited to, uh, recap it. Like I haven't, I've got this beard. I haven't had time to shave there's has been so much going on and he congratulations to you, Mr.


Connor: Yes, I got my, we got the move done. I got my office set up or like kinda sit up. So yes, I'm very stoked. To be honest, I'm mostly stuck knowing that I don't have to move again for a while, because for the last like 13 years of my life, I've like pretty much just moved every single time, like every 12 months.

So knowing that I'm going to be able to settle down now in my old age was very much.  

Aron: So everyone joining, make sure to like, let Connor know what he should put in his background because it's going to stay the same for a while. So, uh, what plans do folks want? Uh, backgrounds now, like Connor's in planning mode.

So give him the tips, give him the, what he needs, uh, to make his flat line.  

Connor: Exactly. Leave it in the comments. I'm going to use that as my like feedback wall.  

Aron: Uh, so we've got a bunch of folks who go Rand, Jen Fraser, Megan Coleen, Joseph, uh, Joel here with us. So, uh, so much to, uh, cover folks. First, want to know if you're going to change chairs?

I, you were, it's already been much better here. Conner. It's much less squeaky  

Connor: than with. So funny story. When I moved, I actually realized that there was a screw that was not near, that had come loose at the very beginning of me moving in. And that's why it was squeaky. So I just screwed it in again, it was as simple  

Aron: as that.

Amazing. Well, we all appreciate it. Thank you from, uh, Colleen and from myself for. You know, having a proper chair now. So, uh, okay. So today we've got, obviously we're gonna start with no code comp wanted to highlight a few projects that caught our eye last month. Uh, and then, you know, Connor and I, um, uh, met someone who kind of built something for us that we thought blew our mind.

Absolutely. So we're excited to show you. And then, uh, this is kind of the, the. I don't know if the round Robin is right. Um, I'm losing my words here, but just to kind of whatever we're going to cover last. So there were some, no jobs and we want to talk about some projects for 20, 22. Uh, and yeah, let us know in the chat.

If you've got any questions, things you want us to cover, uh, we're happy to amend, update, remove any items from the agenda. So Connor. Yeah. Like no code comp. What did, what did you think. You know, um, oh, I'll let you summarize. And then I have some thoughts as well.  

Connor: Okay. So like, it was pretty awesome. Like, okay.

I think the main thing that I'd say about the MoCo conference was after they moved to online, I was kind of. Excuse me. How good can an online conference realistically be, especially like compared to the actual live event. Like, I always have to think back to the actual live event that we went to in 2019, which was really awesome.

So I was looking, I was really looking forward to that. And so when they had to move it online and of course they had to move it online, it made complete sense. It was kind of a bit like, Hmm. Yeah. Um, like, should I say, but I must honestly say that it was like a real good experience. So first of all, the conference itself was awesome.

Like the keynote was great. The different speakers were great, but also, and I think this is like, I think you can't shout out these boys enough, but like what the fence, suite team and Raymar did with that gather town before the actual event is. What made basically gave me that like, networking feeling that you got from that live event, you know, before you actually went in and it was awesome.

I met, like, I met a whole bunch of people and, you know, gather town's quite cool for that, but it made the entire experience really good. So I think just the overall experience of the no-code conference this year, or like really great. And it exceeded my expectations by.  

Aron: Yeah. Um, yeah, I totally agree. What were some highlights for you of the car?

I got, we're going to talk about logic. We're going to talk about memberships. Uh, but what were some talks that caught your eye or, um, you know, beyond what Webflow launch, what were some highlights for you?  

Connor: Well, I went in, so on the first day I went and watch Leslie counselors talk, which I thought was awesome.

I mean, she made. So many good points. I think that if you like getting into the no-code world, you should just check that out because it's just a real good primer in terms of like the kind of things that you should like focus on. I also went and watched Curtis Cummings talk. Um, I found that really interesting.

I mean, obviously some of the stuff that he's doing that on deck kids, like really advanced. So, um, just getting his perspective on like, The operation side of running like your business or no code. I found really interesting. Um, and then also I went and checked out some of Timothy Rick's stuff. Um, I follow some of his YouTube content and I just kind of wanted to see a bit about, um, you know, uh, About his talk on microsites.

And I found that also like really interesting, like his stuff is like really good as it is, but, you know, just from a very Wipfli centric perspective, I thought that that was really good. I've rewatched a few other ones. Um, since I watched the one on imposter syndrome, which I think had a good few good touching point, uh, good talking points.

Um, and they're like a whole bunch of additional ones that I want to check out. Like. John Saunders ones. Like I actually got one of his courses on standard operating procedures for me next year. Like I want to really standardize a lot of things. And so I've been following them on Twitter, have taken, I got one of his courses.

And so I'm going to watch that talk as well. But I think all around what I'd say is like just such a good range of speakers, um, who all kind of had something different to bring to the table and the production quality. As well, it was really good. Also your talk was fantastic.  

Aron: Here's what's okay to chat.

Uh, so yeah, so thanks to everyone who joined, uh, my talk talker, Connor's talk. It was a very heartwarming, uh, seeing you, uh, you all defend air table in the chat, you know, I appreciate that for you, you know, don't feel like you have to. Uh, but no, and I totally agree. The only thing I think was a challenge for me.

And I'm curious to know what people taught thought was like, because it was online. I couldn't like not be a. Right. You know what I mean? Like I still had meetings and I still had, like, I couldn't be like, I'm at a conference and they're like, no, actually you're at home. Like you're not at the conference you are.

And those probably just poor management on, on my end. Um, I, I did think back to 2019, you know, uh, I had a photo with, with Colleen and Ray Mar and I think we met as well on the pier there, Connor. And so I think, you know, uh, I don't think we can create those types of relationships or, or meeting points online as well.

Right. As we do in person. But I think the web flow team did a fantastic job of trying to get as close as possible to that feeling. And, uh, so, you know, huge hats off to them. I think it's, it's so, so difficult. So I'd love to know in the chat, like what are your different. Uh, you know, my, my favorite talk was the imposter syndrome one, uh, primarily because you think like I stream every week, but it took me about 50 streams to feel comfortable doing.

Uh, and so if I had listened to that talk, maybe 40 streams ago, I would have taken me a lot shorter. And so I'm actually reading the book, uh, that, that, uh, speaker recommended. And I'll let you guys know how it goes, but okay. So let us know in the chat, what are your highlights, if there's any talks that you felt were really, really good.

Uh, and we'll make sure to add those to the show notes, but I think Connor, I don't know what you think, but I think the highlight of NOCO talk. Uh, the keynote obviously, but was what, what was delivered or talked about in the keynote? Um, so Webflow is launching logic memberships and improve load time for large websites.

Um, I think we both have a, not a bone to pick, but we both have a, uh, interest in, in those you probably more memberships and me more like logics. So what were your. Around a web flow launched during no-code comp.  

Connor: Yeah. I think everyone saw memberships coming. So, um, they had announced it. So I think we all knew that there was going to be a big part of like the announcement.

Um, what I liked about is they gave us a bit more of an insight into what it could look like. They had a few additional demos. So like kind of the big question mark, in terms of what will be involved with it. What's the kind of address some of those things in the conference. Um, so that looks really good.

Again, not that many people have access to it yet that I know of. So again, it's very hard to comment on whether it's good or not. Um, I was personally kind of hoping that they would launch the beta a bit more widely by now, but you know, each to the owner, you know, throw it whenever you feel you're ready.

Um, uh, logic. So logic, I actually, they actually reached out to me. A few months ago to give them UX feedback on logic. So I knew it was coming, but I saw the very early stages of it. And so at the time I was kind of a bit like they definitely still need to do a bit of work on this. The screenshots looked super promising.

Initially I was concerned that it was going to be very web flow focused, but they added web hooks, which I think is going to be super important. So I'm excited to see how that fits into my overall workflows. I think one thing to keep in mind is we've got a lot of different automation tools. I still feel like, um, Yeah.

Yeah. It's to be seen how it will fit in overall. I think people who don't want to use Zapier don't want to use Integromat would love this. There'll be a lot of good things that you can do with this without having to use any additional tool. But the feature, the Iowa's, the announcement I was personally like pretty excited about was the CMS improvements, because I think the CMS improvements as a whole has been something that people have wanted to see a dress, especially like.

People who use the CMS quite heavily. I think that there's like no denying that there have been issues with the whip for CME is as you add more collections to your CMS and, you know, even though they didn't announce things like lifting the 10,000 CMS limit, I think making these changes now is going to set the foundations for a lot of those things to come.

So, um, yeah. Uh, I mean positive, like really excited about those features, but we'll need to have a play with them first before I can like really judge it.  

Aron: So what are the CMS improvements? Cause like, I think the, the expectation or the hope was okay, no 10 K limit. Um, and you know, I couldn't find the landing page for like CMS.

Is it just faster load time? Is it filtering? You know, what is, what is your understanding of what they actually want?  

Connor: Yeah. So as you start to add more CMS items, you definitely see, start to see your design. Like, Things" just take longer, like publishing sites take longer loading pages inside of the designer takes longer.

So like the more items that you have inside of your CMS, the more noticeable it is. Um, and obviously if you run like a standard blog, you're not going to come across those issues as much, but I've definitely seen some of it with the UNICOM factory. And, you know, even though it's not like. It's never been to the point where I'm like, this is unusable.

I have kind of been wary of adding more and more items to my CMS because it makes it pretty difficult to actually use the designer when it lags as much as it does. And so that is what I think they addressing here just overall performance improvements. And I think that. I think this is going to cater mostly to people that use the CMS quite easily.

And I'm one of those people, which is why I'm really  

Aron: excited about it. Um, I just like to hear you say the word, the acronym CMS, it's like a, it's like a different word. It was like CMS, you know, I can't say it like you do, but it's like, it's, it's a different acronym. Um, yeah, it's interesting. Cause I wonder, and this is, this is what, what I find so interesting about these announcements and I wrote about in the newsletter this morning is like, who are they.

Right. So like logic is a really good examples. Um, you know, do, do I expect web flow to manage automations writ large for all of my workflows? Not really. Just like, I don't expect YouTube or Contentful or any other, or like Twitter, to be honest, to manage like automations for me. Like for me, Webflow is a repository of where information ends up now for a lot of people, it is like all huge workflow.

Right. So I do have the expectation of having some automations. So what I'm curious about is like, are they gonna create, you know, a really complex, super, like, can I send it to MailChimp natively? What about every other email marketing? Or are they kind of going to go halfway and create like escape files?

Right. So the ability to send web hooks and receive web hooks, well, that solves like 85% of the problems. Cause I can configure that and I can use it regardless of if they have a native automation, but if they're like, okay, we're going after. Right. And we want to create this like really advanced automations and email marketing landing pages that are super, super customize.

And, but a bunch of things happening in the backend while I'm like, that's really interesting, but are you really going to beat HubSpot at it? And so what I'm really curious about is how are they going to take memberships, logic, their CMS and web flow generally, and be like, Webflow is great for this type of user.

And we're going to expand that type of user over time. Um, and I think like logic is a good example of that for me, this spells like, okay, we're going to really invest into this. We've built out logic right from the branch, like Brett built up branches right from the beginning. But I'd love to see like, okay, we're going to have 10, 15, 20 connections in the next year or things like that.

So I can truly be like, okay, this is what they're going after. And then in me as a user, I can be like, this is not for me. Or this is for. Uh, and really that's what I felt like was missing. And, uh, I'm curious to kind of hear what you think Connor, in terms of that gripe that I have of like, who's this for.

Uh, but maybe I should just be excited that it exists, that I'm excited to use it.  

Connor: Um, yeah. I mean, all good points. I kind of feel like this is like this thought of like something that was probably part of the bigger roadmap for them. I think that like, I think maybe not in the last night Coke, the, in between the last two no-code conferences, they had like another event, another web, where they basically talked about how they want to allow people to build sites like product hunt.

And like, you know, like these are features that you will ultimately need natively. Um, because like I know we love Al Integromat and we love our Zapier's, but like, you know, those tone itself, uh, like new things to learn. And I think that having. Um, internally or like as a native integration, we'll bring more people in because you have to ask yourself like, what are typically deal breakers for people using Webflow.

And I think memberships is a massive one, especially when it comes to like workflow. E-commerce, that's a, that's a huge one. Right. And you know, chick logic is an inconvenience. I think, to a lot of people, I think a lot of people out there know. That, um, Zapier is a thing Integromat as a thing, but I think a lot of people were just like, really I'm paying this much for this platform.

And I can't even like automate simple things. And so I kind of feel like they addressing some things that might be deal breakers across. Multiple different customer segments. So that is kind of where I, why I think they might be going down this path. And it also realistically moves them from a website building tool to an app building platform in other ways.

So that's another thing as well.  

Aron: So I agree with you and anything that like, and I'm going to end here. Cause I think it's like, it's a gripe that I have and I have for a lot of no-code tools is like product hunt is cool for product. Right. Like how many product, like product hunt type, like app builders that we need.

Right. And so, like, I actually don't think a lot of users care that much of they're able on Webflow to build product hub, hunt type like experiences. Right. You know, their, their desires are more narrow. It's like if someone submits a form, can I create a CMS item? Do you need to build full blown logic to do.

I don't know. It's a good question. If you are going to build a full blown logic type interface, like who is that for? What use cases do you see in your user base? They either are solved here or that you'd like to expand on. Right? Uh, so for me, like, these are amazing as like a user, but generally always curious.

Okay, well, sorry, last thing. I'm just going to do this and then I'm going to drop it after this. So like, if salary is greater than 80,000, like for me, that's like lead routing, right? That's like saying, okay, if you know, we get a lead and we're going to augment that lead and we're going to do like a lead augmentation and lead scoring, like that's a huge surface area, right?

In dad's going into places like HubSpot and these companies have been working on that for, for ages. That's super interesting. Like as a, as a business person, right. Is that what Webflow wants? I'm not sure. Right. So I'm really curious to see how this evolves and I hope that they build like escape valves, like web hooks, but also I hope they like really clarify who this is for.

Like, Hey, we're just going to limit to things that are in Webflow and then do whatever. Or no, this is like a huge surface area that we're going to invest in over the next 5, 7, 10 years, so that we can do email marketing automation, things like that, and start moving your web, your, your workflow to web flow.

Um, all right. We've got Finn suite in the house welcome team.  

Connor: And Joe w one last thing that I'll say about that, I actually agree with you that, like, I usually get quite skeptical about like companies branching out into too many different directions. I'm just going to say it before I get too much hate. I feel like that is what bubble did.

Like they tackled multiple different directions at the same time, but. But I must say that we've flow has done the one thing that is like the core thing, which is to build great websites in it really well, which means I actually don't mind adding these things and I actually feel like, you know, maybe I'll use it.

Maybe I won't use it. I feel like there's no downside to having something like this in there. Um, I also feel like it's going to create some exciting opportunities and it's the same thing with air table. Great database building tall. No one asked them for like automations or apps or maybe people did, but those are like amazing additions on top of an already great product.

And I feel like that is protecting here with Webflow. So I personally think. It's promising with or not. I end up using it as a completely different story. Um, for me, the biggest thing with logic is going to be like, how easy is it going to be to work with other apps and how easy? Um, yeah. And so that is something that is still like a bit in the open.

I mean, I think it, but I think overall, I think people will use that people will enjoy it. And I think it is also going to draw more people.  

Aron: Yeah. Okay. Recap. I think we've done. We've said all we could say. I'm really excited to see the direct connections would escape, files get put in, and honestly, like I'm gonna use it.

I'm really like, I'm excited to use it. Uh, and I'm excited to show off. So the second they gave me, uh, the option to I'll come on the stream. We'll build a, and we'll build some cool automations. Cool. All right. I think that's a good recap of no code. Uh, uh, you know, huge, thanks again to Webflow for putting it on.

And it was a great event and I think it's like a bar for online events going forward. So, uh, yeah. Great job to Webflow. If anyone from Webflow is watching hats off to you guys, you've done an amazing job. Cool. Are we ready, Connor for the next or projects of the. Yep. Amazing. Okay. So, uh, this is actually a project that, uh, I wanted to highlight, which is called, uh, Hey, it's Harold.

Uh, so this is actually built an auto code. Uh, so it folks, I, and I, and I, I'm curious to know what people think like is auto code a no code tool? Uh, cause auto code is like a, it's more of an, uh, Kind of coding environment that simplifies API APIs. Uh, so you have one API to use a bunch of others. Uh, but what, Hey, it's Harold does, is that it's a texting app for habits, right?

So you can say like, Hey, every day I want to read 10 pages and Harold will text you every day to say like, Hey, did you do the thing you promised to do? And you can answer it. It'll interpret your answer. And in a. Give you insights into how successful you are attracting your habits. Uh, the reason I wanted to highlight this is one, and most importantly it is not a goddamn marketplace.

So Connor, you know, you're the man, but there are other things you can build with no go tools. Uh, you got nothing. If it's not a marketplace who cares. And second, I think it's actually. You know, something that I'm super excited about it in a you're super excited about is this idea of low code, right? So this idea of, of, you know, putting your backend in air table or simplifying a database structure and writing a bit of code, right.

To be able to create really cool applications. So, um, auto code is a little bit of this middle layer, which just makes coding really, really. So you don't have to worry about things like authentication with different, uh, libraries like you, like you could just connect us. In a row handle the OAuth for you, right?

Uh, I do have a few streams with auto code where we built a discord bot, um, slight tip to anyone creating content out there. If you create content around discord bots, you're going to get users that are very different from no coders. Uh, I've got a bunch of, I think, 16, 17 year olds trying to get into streaming, watching that, uh, stream, but it is a super interesting.

That definitely makes coding, um, much easier. So definitely do kind of invite everyone to check it out and check out, uh, Hades. Harold, if you want an idea of what a, an app that is not a marketplace can do, that's built with low code.

Love it. So what habits Connor are you trying to try and get better at, but you can use, Hey, it's Harold for,  

Connor: I need to, oh, good question. You should have PR you should have warned me about, I could've come up with a better answer than I'm probably going to give. Um, um, maybe, maybe like keeping up, making my YouTube videos, you know,  

Aron: that's why you're like a professional, like you never miss a week.

That's definitely not something you need help staying up to. Hm,  

Connor: but the thing is, you know, how I do actually track my habits is with like a normal journal. So that's kind of how I'm making it happen. But like, I dunno, maybe drinking water is a good one. That's a habit worth building. I think. I  

Aron: agree. Uh, so yeah, so folks, if you give it a try, let me know how it goes.

Uh, you know, I don't know if I have a habit, uh, Like weirdly, like I started rock climbing, so I need to like treat my hands with lotion. So maybe that's a habit, like every six hours text me and be like, yo, have you have you, you know, lathered your hands so that they don't hurt every day. Um, cool. Okay. So that was the project of the month.

Every month. If you have inching project, you want us to show off? Uh, the tip I have is just spam me on. Uh, just literally at me and be like, yo, can you showcase my project? And the answer will probably be yes, eventually. Uh, so that was our project of the month. Okay, Connor, uh, this is our next one, which is custom Integromat apps and, or your particularly kind of excited about this.

So I'll let you kind of recap how we learnt about custom Integromat apps, uh, and, uh, Yeah. Like, so as context here, I don't use Integromat, uh, I mainly use Zapier and I know that every time I say that there's like 10 people in the chat, like, why don't you use Integromat Integromat is the best thing ever.

Uh, but for this particular use case, I'm super, super excited. So with that Connor, I'll let you kind of talk to us about what.  

Connor: Yeah. So as you, YouTube, is there obviously a lot of different things involved with getting our videos online and obviously there's a lot of manual stuff that has to be done. So just so that your firm kind of has like a little bit of an idea of what the actual workflow looks like of like publishing a video is once you film that you have to upload it, you have to add your descriptions, then you have to add like your timestamps and a whole bunch of different things.

Most, um, tools out there. I most automation tools actually don't have a native, um, YouTube integration, which means you end up having to do this manually. Like Zapier does have some basic, um, YouTube stuff, but definitely not enough that allows you to really streamline the entire process of basically creating videos, uploading them, all those types of things.

And it's simply because I think either there are not enough people who will use their particular app or, um, Using it with the current API that usually has this like a bit difficult to sit up, but we came across someone who just was like, Hey, do you want to use my YouTube Integromat app? And we were like, well, and so, um, Kwan who.

Is a developer. I think that's his background. I believe. Um, he also runs like a marketing agency. He basically started a YouTube channel and in order to streamline his processes, he built a custom. YouTube app inside of Integromat, which basically allows you to do all of the things that we wanted to do.

For example, uploading the scriptions uploading thumbnails, making changes to thumbnails and controlling it all from somewhere like your table. And so we checked it out and it works perfectly, but what the most exciting thing about it is was that he actually built. Integromat integration by himself. So obviously when you are working with Zapier apps, Integromat apps, you actually have to.

You know, you can only really use what apps are available to you. But little did we know there was that you can actually jump into Integromat if you know how to code and create your own custom app for whatever it is that you want to do. So he created it for YouTube, which is absolutely game changing, but the innocency he's launched it.

We've just started setting up workflows and I've now set up workflows that automatically updates all of my videos. Updated from nails descriptions, all that type of stuff. It's awesome. But one thing that he also did was he actually built a Facebook ads integration, which I actually think has even better in a lot of ways because I'm sitting up Facebook ads using the Facebook business manager is like a huge pain.

It's like the buggy is piece of software, even mentored. And now you can basically control the uploading of ads and ad sets directly from inside of Integromat with the custom app that he created using. Documentation in the API docs and pretty exciting opportunity for anyone who can code and wants to build these custom apps to solve specific use cases.

Aron: So, yeah, so just for, for developers is watching this, uh, I think Connor and I pay more for, uh, the YouTube app on Integromat then we do, for instance,  

Connor: So I didn't realize that. Wow. So,  

Aron: and honestly, uh, money super well spent, right. Uh, there, you know, um, yeah, like it's a no brainer for me. And so, and I think this is an opportunity where again, this is like this low code idea where Integromat.

Uh, has this ability to create apps actually like relatively simply it'll do the OAuth for you. It'll do a lot of the mapping for you, create your API endpoints and you just have to bring that API into these little kind of S you know, a way that a note in the no coder can come in and put in the information.

So you have to create these little, uh, um, motor. But otherwise it's actually quite simple. I mean, simple. It's not simple for us, but simple for developers. And it's an opportunity to say like, okay, there's this need on top of Integromat that clearly is, is worth it. Like we both pay way more for this than we do for.

Integromat itself. And there are a ton of apps that don't have as in-depth integrations, as we'd like, you know, slack might be another, we think of YouTube, you mentioned Facebook ads. Like it's such an opportunity. And, um, so yeah, I think generally developers have fun with it. Definitely like a monetization opportunity.

And for folks who are interested in this particular, uh, YouTube. Uh, integration on Integromat reach out to me or Connor. Uh, and we'll put you in touch with Kong, actually put his YouTube channel. Uh, he's got like two videos and this is where we actually learned about, uh, um, you know, the integration and, and we're reaching out to him and be like, Hey, can you, can you show me this?

And then we built it out. So generally to developers like, Hey, this is a golden opportunity. So if you are one and are interested and want to talk to Quang about how we built it, uh, more than happy to put you in touch. And I am so, so excited that we have this  


Connor: sure. And yeah, like you say, I mean, I think the thing to keep in mind is like, Watson key.

Matt builds it at some point. Now the thing is that oftentimes these are solving use cases that are so niche, that it doesn't make sense for them to build it natively. Like they're just not enough people that will use it. And I think it's the same thing with Zapier. Like they like certain apps that just don't make sense to build because like, They like going to be how many people that are going to use it.

And so, um, if you are already familiar with a niche or like a toll that is used quite commonly in like an industry that you're working in, this is like a prime opportunity. And like, yeah, like we pay more for this one integration than we do for the entire Integromat. And it's still a great deal because it's going to save so much time and improve so many workflows that if you just look at it on an hourly basis, what you charge out on an hourly basis, you're going to make that back a lot.

So definitely awesome stuff. Really excited to see what people do with  

Aron: this. Yeah. And, and just, uh, we, we locked in a price for a year and I imagine Kwong, watch them back. There's no code, no code talk is going to be like, oh, maybe he should have charged us a little more, but we're locked in for. So get on it before Kwong realizes, you know, the value of what he's building and get yourself.

If you, if you are interested in YouTube or building out yourself. So this was my big learning of the last month. Connor, anything we add before we go over to you? Our last item for 2021?  

Connor: Nope. I think that covers it all.  

Aron: Awesome. Cool. You know what I'm going to do before next Table Talk, I'm going to get like an animation, like swipe.

Right. So like swabs, the screen is going to look nice. Cool. So I want, I actually, oh, this is two things in one. The first thing I wanted to, uh, this is kind of a trend that I'm seeing, which is folks explicitly asking, uh, for no code knowledge within jobs. And I it's interesting. Cause I think a lot of people are like, oh, that's so like, that's so new or that's so weird.

Right. But when you think about. People want Salesforce experience, right? You can have a Salesforce admin job, and there are hundreds of those, you know, this is the emergence of those same types of jobs, right? So what's more interesting. I think here is that this is under operations. So you can imagine, sorry for context, this is Twitch, uh, looking for a content, an operations coordinator, and specifically asks for knowledge around air table, scripting, API APIs, and.

You know, I think this is the beginning of folks saying like air table or bubble or whatever web flow is a specific need for a role in operations. And that it's something that people are going to look for. Um, now what I want to highlight here is also like folks are expecting like no coder as a job, and I don't expect that to ever happen.

Right. Folks want like better operations. They don't want like, Better, no code tools, right? They have a goal here. It's like coordinating operations by the way, to do that. Well at Twitch, you need to know no code tools like Airtable and you need to have scripting. So folks, if you are interested, it's a little ironic that I'm promoting a Twitch.

Roll on a YouTube stream, but, uh, if you are interested in, uh, operations, Twitch and air table, uh, go ahead and, uh, yeah. Apply to this operations coordinator role, uh, seems like a lot of fun. The twitching seems great. So highly recommended,  

Connor: and they're not the only ones like Netflix has been looking for people where I've experienced.

I've told like stacker and the air table and all those types of things. It's just like a really exciting opportunity. Like, obviously, like you said, like Salesforce is like a huge industry, like a high demand job, but like, I still feel like with tools like air table and stuff like that, you're still pretty early in the mix.

You know, like for example, in the unicorn factory, I've seen like a huge increase for demand for like ear table consultants, or we prefer developers. So like this space is like clearly moving from. Oh, this is like a little thing that you can build, like a little side project where for a prototype, we have to know some of the biggest companies in the world are using this to run their operations.

And that is a huge opportunity for if one who's already in the space.  

Aron: Absolutely. Absolutely. So get yourself a no-code job. Get yourself, just play air table. It's it's it's one of the weird things about my job is. I wish I spent like 50 times more time in actual air table. Uh, so whenever I see a job, that's like, must know in-depth air table experience.

I'm like, Ooh, interesting though. That sounds like a lot of fun. Uh, but nowhere I spent a lot of time in air table. I spent a lot of time writing scripts. No worries folks, but, uh, you know, I wish I had spent. The vast majority of my week kind of building cool operation stuff. Uh, one day, maybe one day,  

Connor: oh, you around the ear table, around your ear, Table knowledge, go for it.

Out of the people that you know, who are like more advanced than ear tabled in you are, and you pretty much know most things. What are the things that they know that you don't know as well yet?  

Aron: Okay. I think, uh, I think the main, let me just kind of, uh, go into full screen mode. Um, it's an interesting question.

It's a, it's, uh, we're doing a, uh, an audible here. Um, I think the main difference of like the way what you're asking is where would I spend more time in air table or how to onboard air table? I think people underestimate the complexity of rolling out a word. Right. So you have a way of working, right?

Which might be an air table and it might be poorly structured. It might be in another tool. You might have like eight tools that are like managing the job. Right. And I think a lot of people focus on like, let me build the Airtable base that I think is ideal. Right. Which is easy. That's the easy part. The harder part is like, Here are the people in the workflow.

Here's what views they need. Here's how I make them like, understand what those are, make feel comfortable in the new workflow. Here's where we should start. Here's where we should continue improving. Here's like a script that I need to warn them about that they need to write. And here are the things about that script that they need to know before they embark on this massive project.

Right. So I think, you know, Um, the, the main challenge around air table and no-code tools generally is not like here's how you configure the field. It's more, how do you map that workflow that you already have an exist to this new way of working that can evolve over time? Um, and so, you know, if you were to parachute me into this like very complex workflow, I would feel overwhelmed not by the product itself, but by like, where do we see.

Who's the right person. Uh, who's going to like derail this project four months from now because that person only works in this other tool that I've never heard of. And that me, we may be able to replicate or not. So, um, what I would recommend to folks who are like, oh, I want to become an air table person or a no-code person is focused less on the tools themselves, but focus more on like change management workflows.

Uh, For the important stakeholders and things like that. Uh, and that's, Things" actually like, interestingly, I'm not very good at, I love building air table bases. Right. And I love writing scripts that I love, you know, quirky workflows, but the bulk of the work is actually change management  

Connor: right now.  

Aron: I don't think people were expecting that answer.

I think  

Connor: I actually I've seen that with like Integromat as well. It's like, you know, you can like learn every little thing, but what really separates out, like people who are like good at Integromat from people who are like great at using Integromat is actually even, I think that happens around here.

Right. You know, so, no, that's a good answer. I,  

Aron: what are, what are some things that happened around Integromat like, what are some examples I'm curious.  

Connor: Well, I've seen people build like pretty like huge workflows and I'm kind of like, where do you even start with it? But it's because people kind of have like a good understanding of like how work flows.

Database structures as a whole works and how that all ties in together with the total that you're using. And I think that a lot of people were really good. They have like good foresight to see, um, how you should be planning and building things in a way that won't come crumbling down on you and free months time.

And so I feel like a lot of the approaches that you take is quite similar. Um, but no, I, I, I think that you pretty much summed it up in your own. I  

Aron: have I've one example that I can, uh, so I started at air table as a CSM, and this was, you know, before I remember who I was working with, but, um, that, that, that client had, uh, dummy tables, right?

So they had like content 2021 content, 2021 H two in two different table, all the same fields. You know, just, just terrible base structure. Right. And I kept telling them like, Hey, you have like two tables for the same information. That's really not like ideal. That's not good based practices, uh, best practices for base structure.

And they kept telling me like, I don't care. And it drove me crazy. Right. But they were like really happy with their work. Right. So instead of like talking about their workflow and finding improvements, I kept like coming back to the base structure, I was like, no, you have to, you have to put that in one table.

It doesn't make sense. Not realizing that like their workflow had so many bigger problems than duplicate tables. Right. That that's what I should have been focused on. And then eventually be like, Hey, by the way, can we like put this in one table? And they would've been like, yeah, that's fine. Like, that's where we are.

Things that are painful in our workflow because we solved all the rest. So that was a long-winded answer, uh, to folks like worry about the workflow more than the tools. And, um, you know, the, the, the structure matters less, the details matter less, but when the details do matter, please come watch. "Automate All the Things" because that's what I do care about.

And that's what I show up on the stream. Uh, and yeah. Okay. Last thing here, we're going to go after this. What are some, what can folks look to forward to in 2022 from you from the no-code community? Give us, give us what's what's going to happen in 2022.  

Connor: Well, so just the NOCO community in general, like my predictions for 20, 20, whatever,  

Aron: man does it audible this we've we're off script.

Now. This is okay. You can give your predictions. You can talk about what you're going to work on. Tell me what.  

Connor: Okay, so what I'm going to work on. So I've got like free main projects that I'm going to be focusing on, at least for the first half of 2022. Um, so number one is I'm rejigging my, um, course on how to build marketplaces.

If we play a table and Zapier that's number one, number two is, um, For the unicorn factory, I'm gonna work on building, what's called the freelance academy where basically want to teach freelancers how they can close more deals, all that kind of stuff. Take like a lot of the learnings from the different freelancers and basically help people convert more clients.

Because one of the big things that we've, that worked out really well in 2021 was like getting more leads. So I've taken part of that part of the funnel. It's quite repeatable. It's quite scalable, but like we're, we're like lacking a bit is like, I need to make. Easier for people who are just starting their freelance journey to like learn the ins and outs of getting started.

So that's going to be a focus. And then of course, Wells are going to be working on code meets code, which is another big project that is going to hopefully get launched soonish early 20, 22. I don't want to put dates out there just in case, but, um, that's something that I'm looking forward to. It's going to be like focused at people who are already familiar with no code tools and really want to go from like, No code to low code, really take things to the next level.

Um, that's something that I've personally been exploring with all my no-code projects and I've had such a good time with it. Like it's really like, felt like I've made like huge progress in terms of what I can do. Um, and so after us talking about it, we've decided to like take it further. Um, and so I'm really excited about that as well.

So those are the key things that I'm going to be focused on. Um, But, um, I'm excited about it because I think it's going to be a lot of fun for everyone.  

Aron: Yeah. Uh, no. And I've been super impressed with, uh, your low-code skills over the last year. I remember you went from like a I'm thinking, like, what is this scripting thing to like here's 200 lines of code that pretty much powers.

Most of, uh, unicorn factory.  

Connor: Yeah. I mean, and so many exciting opportunities. Um, I feel like no code tools are really great at getting you like 80% there, but then if you want to get those incremental additional steps that just allow you to do things. And they're like so many use cases. For example, if you want to like reduce your workload on Zapier, you can move simple workflows to scripts.

If you want to tap into API APIs for tools that don't have integrations, you can do that as well. And more importantly, Well, I personally found most exciting about all of this is that all of the things that I've learned about no code automation, I've been able to translate into code a lot faster than I expected because I'm familiar with how databases work.

And so to now to say, Hey, actually, it makes more sense just to write this in code is actually really exciting. And I think the, like a lot of people out there. Um, we'll probably get that excitement from learning aspects of coding that I got. So, yeah.  

Aron: Yeah. Likewise. So, uh, we're gonna, so I I'm working with you on this.

So, so my number, number one for, uh, next year is definitely gonna be code meets, no code. So currently it lives on Connor's website. Uh, but we have secured the code meets no code domain, and we're adding it to our pile of domains, but I'm, I'm, uh, uh, Like, I'm very confident that this will be a domain that we use and actually develop.

So, eh, yeah, I'm super, super excited. And I think as someone who became a low coder over the last couple of years, I'm super excited. Uh, so that's going to be number one for me. Uh, number two is I'm curious to hear what people think. So, um, I've been rethinking my newsletter and, um, I want to create these like more approachable.

Workflow ESC step-by-steps right. Like how I create assets, how I manage my expenses, your questions, I get all the time. So I wanted to turn and create like how I work flows. Right. Uh, and so that's actually going to be number two. So I'm going to turn my newsletter. Yeah. So I already have four scheduled, uh, where once a month, it's going to be no code recap.

Once a month is going to be me talking about a workflow. And, uh, kind of detailing you, giving you access to the base I use or whatever tool I'm using to the zap, to the, the template. So you can go out and use it yourself and ideally improve on it. Right. That's where I really want, I want people to, um, "Automate All the Things" and I run a channel called "Automate All the Things" and I rarely have an opportunity to be like, here's what I automate.

And here's what it is. And then once a month have a guest kind of come right on the news. So that's number two. Uh, and then number three is just like lots of amazing things happening at air table. I'll probably going to be moving to New York next year. So that's going to be a big move. Uh, stay tuned for that.

And hopefully I'll be able to stream from New York. We'll see what happens. Uh, but yeah, going to keep the stream going, going to keep the newsletter going, could meet snow code is my big project. And then I also have a full-time job at air table. So that's going to be my plans at 2020. And, uh, yeah, hopefully we'll that.

Hopefully I'm excited for no code talk to come back next month. Uh, any questions from the chat? Let's leave it for a moment here. So there Fraser would love to see a whole, no talk on code meets. No code. Sure. I mean, yeah, we're up. We'd love to, uh, come from. Cody's though code. Uh, if folks are interested, drop your email on that air table script's lending page from Connor's website and stay tuned for an email in early 2022.


Connor: what you'd like to, yeah. Let us know what you'd like to learn. Like what API is you'd like to work with. Like, obviously we have our ones that we want to use, but if there's something that you want to learn specifically, then we can bake that into the, some of the content that we're creating. So throw that into the chat, or if you're watching this after the live stream, drop it into the comments because we are looking for ideas.

So. Any feedback that you can give us would be phenomenal.  

Aron: Yeah, totally. Whether that's APIs or concepts or, you know, workflows that you'd like built out, uh, we are all yours. And even if you're like a developer who wants to help other people learn how to write code and either that's resources or want to pitch in, in terms of recording content, man, we are, we are, we need, we're gonna, uh, I'm gonna get all the help with.

Uh, so Jeremy asks question code needs. No code is that JavaScript focused? Mainly I would say so, you know, we know JavaScript. That's what we write in and air table and J query in web PLO. So obviously the content that we create is going to be very JavaScript focused that said, you know, we hope, and this is like a true ambition that most of the content eventually becomes submitted by the committee.

So if folks want to write Python scripts or, or provide resources for others to learn Python or any other programming language, we're all for it. So obviously we're going to start, uh, with things that we know and that we think we can speak competently about, but the goal short term and medium term is truly have a community of low coders sharing information, sharing, scripts, getting value, and giving back value for local.

Connor: Yeah. And also just be clear, it's like not. Uh, coding thing. It's how you can use code to take your no-code workflows to the next level. So I think in certain ways people are already doing it. So for example, with the multi reference zap inside of Zapier, you need to add a customer requested where you drop in a snippet of.

The Dean allows you to see multi reference data to web flow. And so it will be a bunch of things like that. So, um, not just will it be how to automate this with your tables scripts? There'll be like, how can you, um, do little custom things inside of web flows? So we really want to have like a broad range of things that will be done, but again, um, we're gonna like let the community kind of drive it.

We're obviously gonna have like a lot of community input as well. We'll be going over like Things". Um, out there, like the fence sweet, um, concede cookies, stuff like that, that requires just a little bit of coding knowledge. Um, and so overall that's kind of the direction that we want to take with things, but yeah.

Um, it's going to be fun. It's going to be exciting.  

Aron: I agree. And I'm excited to learn mainly from the community, learn, you know, a bunch of new things. So I'll, I'll teach as much as we can. And then we're going to hand it off to folks to teach us and to teach others. So with those. Words. Uh, yeah. Huge. Thanks.

Thanks Megan. Jeremy Fraser, Kyle, uh, uh, uh, Colleen as always penny, I saw in the chat. Uh, thanks. So, so much for joining. Uh, I've got two more streams this, uh, this month. Uh, next week we have Zapier, uh, Taylor holiday from their R and D team is talking to us about Zapier trends. Uh, and then two weeks, uh, I have LFS, which is a YouTube area.

We're going to show how to create a no con a, uh, air table marketing pipeline. The it's a little fuzzy, what we're going to cover, but it's going to be fun. We're going to talk marketing and no code. And those are the last streams of the year of back in 2022 Connor. We're going to be back in 2022. Huge.

Thanks to everyone for joining huge thanks to you, Connor for coming on and, uh, Yeah to a great new year's holidays have fun folks and I'll see you are back next year.  

Connor: Sounds good. See you and goodbye. Bye y'all.

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